Who are the Children of Abraham

Christian Party

Who are the Children of Abraham?

Gen 11:26 And Terah [Torah] lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

"Now if they be married to any of the sons of the other tribes of the children of Israel, then shall their inheritance be taken from the inheritance of our fathers, and shall be added to the inheritance of the tribe to which they shall belong; and it shall be taken from the lot of our inheritance", Numbers 36:3

"They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus says to them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham" John 8:39

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Gen 26:5

Did God choose Abraham because the law was written in his heart? No. Did God choose Abraham because he claimed that the law was "fulfilled"? No. Did God choose Abraham because Abraham claimed that the law was nailed to some cross? No. Did God choose Abraham because he claimed that he had received remission for his sins? No. God chose Abraham for only ONE reason--he kept God's charges, commandments, statutes, and laws.

Gen 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

Gen 21:15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.

Gen 21:16 And she went, and sat her down over against [him] a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against [him], and lift up her voice, and wept.

Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he [is].

Ancestor

Actual KJV translation:

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Joh 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Modern English words:

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our ancestor. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's descendants, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your ancestor. Then said they to him, We be not born of miscegenation; we have one ancestry, God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your ancestor, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your ancestor the devil, and the lusts of your ancestor ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the originator of it.

Joh 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

God of Abraham

Gen 26:24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

Gen 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

Gen 31:42 Except the God of my father, the God of Abraham, and the fear of Isaac, had been with me, surely thou hadst sent me away now empty. God hath seen mine affliction and the labor of my hands, and rebuked thee last night.

Gen 31:53 The God of Abraham, and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us. And Jacob swore by the fear of his father Isaac.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

Exo 4:5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.

1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

1Ch 29:18 O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this forever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee:

2Ch 30:6 So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.

Psa 47:9 The princes of the people are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham: for the shields of the earth belong unto God: he is greatly exalted.

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luk 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Act 7:32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

Now jews claim that Abraham never existed http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/arts/09BIBL.html?todaysheadlines

"Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses.
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never
occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho."

What "never existed" is a "jewish patriarch" named Abraham. Those who call themselves "jews" today are LYING when they make that false claim, just as Jesus Christ warned us 2,000 years ago that they were.

The jews whom Jesus addressed that day in John 8:39 were Edomites whose patriarch Esau was a grandson of Abraham. But Esau miscegenated with Canaanite women and was exiled to Edom, where his descendants never again intermarried with other descendants of Abraham. Within 10 generations after Esau, the proportion of Abraham's blood in Edomites was only 1 part in 2,048, and after 20 generations it was only 1 part in 2,097,152. It was 42 generations from Abraham to Christ, so by that time it was down to 1 part in 9,000,000,000,000.

Since jews have rarely if ever intermarried with Israelites or any other descendants of Abraham over the 100 generations since then, the proportion of Abraham's blood in Edomites is now down to 1 part in 1 x 10 to the 33rd power [1 followed by 33 zeros].

Thus, the only jews who can claim to be descendants of Abraham are the descendants of Edomites, who are now known as Sephardic jews, and they are less than 2% of the jewish population. Ashkenazi and Jehudi jews are not even descendants of Shem, which means that they aren't Semites, Hebrews, descendants of Abraham, nor Israelites. Ashkenazi jews are descendants of Japeth, and Jehudi jews are descendants of Ham, which are two entirely separate races from descendants of Shem [of whom Abraham was a descendant].

98% of today's jews aren't genetically linked to Abraham at all, and the less than 2% who can make the claim that they are Abraham's descendants are so remotely related to him that it's clear why Christ told them they weren't the "children [read: descendants] of Abraham". And not even they can claim to be Israelites, because only descendants of Esau's brother Jacob are Israelites.

John 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

There are two opposing views about what "father" and "children" mean in this Scripture. OSLers [One Seed Liners] believe that, because "servant of sin" is used figuratively to address these jews' sinful nature in John 8:34, that this is also a figurative reference that means the same as above; that the word "father" which was translated from the Greek word "pater" is not a reference to their putative genealogical ancestor Abraham, but instead refers to "the spiritual father of sin". DSLers [Dual Seed Liners] believe that this is a literal statement where the jews are claiming that Abraham is their genetic ancestor, and that Jesus Christ is telling them that they are not the genetic descendants of Abraham.

Here's that same Scripture with Strong's Concordance Numbers so that you can easily refer to the original Greek words from which it was translated:

John 8:39 They answered^{611
and2532 said2036 unto him846, Abraham11 is2076 our2257 father3962. Jesus2424 saith3004 unto them846, If1487 ye were2258 Abraham's11 children5043, ye would do4160, 302 the works2041 of Abraham11.}

An essential element of the OSLer's position is that jews are not a race, and this is a prime motivation for them to assert that "father" actually means "the spiritual father of sin". Conversely, DSLers use this Scripture to demonstrate that Jesus recognized the ethnicity of these jews and even knew that they were NOT "children" of Abraham.

OSLer's argue that because "servant" was used figuratively in "servant of sin" in this same chapter, it's reasonable to conclude that there might be other figurative references in John 8. It's not clear exactly why this figurative reference to sin would refer to "servant" in one paragraph, and then to "father" a few paragraphs later, but let's consider the possibilities. One possible explanation is that a "father" was usually in a household where "servants" were, and that a reader familiar with such households could envision that he sins because he's a "servant of sin", and therefore the leader of this sin is the "father". "Servant of sin" makes sense. This use of the word "father" to mean "the spiritual father of sin" gets confusing [and demeaning], but there still may be some validity to the claim if we assume that this is a reference to the devil. In other words, the word "father" is used figuratively to refer to the devil.

Where the OSLer's position breaks down, though, is when Jesus parried with the jews when He told them they were not the "children" (or "teknon" in Greek) of Abraham. If someone sins because they are the servant of sin, and if the leader of that sin is the "devil" who is referred to as "father", then where do children fit in? Who are the children of the devil? Are they the jews Jesus was talking to? If so, then Jesus just told them here that they are NOT children of the devil, whereas a few paragraphs later He says that their father IS the devil.

Is it reasonable to assume that the word father is used figuratively but that the word children is used literally? No. Either this entire chapter is figurative, or only the reference to "servants of sin" is figurative and the rest is literal.

But there's another problem with presuming that "servant of sin" was a figurative use of the word "servant", because the Greek word from which "servant" was translated is "doulos" [Strong's 1401], which means either a literal or a figurative slave, voluntary or involuntary. If this is translated as "slave of sin", even in English this becomes a literal statement, not a figurative one.

The coup de grace is that Christ always refers to "father" in a positive sense. He refers to God as "my father". He refers to the prophets as "the fathers". His followers referred to Him as "father". So now why would He suddenlyuse the word "father" to refer to "the spiritual father of sin"? This would be a 180 degree reversal in His role of encouraging fathers, fatherhood, and families. It would be demeaning to associate "father" with "devil" or "the spiritual father of sin". It's repetitive as well as completely unnecessary because "servant of sin" was an adequate phrase by itself, that didn't need modification or enhancement. It got the point across completely.

Another problem with suggesting that this is a figurataive rather than a literal use of the word "pater" is obvious when you examine the original Greek words in this very Chapter and Verse:

John 8:44 Ye^{5210 are2075 of1537 your father3962 the devil1228, and2532 the lusts1939 of your5216 father3962 ye will2309 do4160. He1565 was2258 a murderer443 from575 the beginning746,
and2532 abode2476 not3756 in1722 the truth225,
because3754 there is2076 no3756 truth225 in1722 him846. When3752 he speaketh2980 a lie5579, he
speaketh2980 of1537 his own2398: for3754 he is2076 a liar5583, and2532 the father3962 of it}846

Note that "it" in "the father of it" refers to "lie". Here, "it" is translated from the Greek word "autos" [Strong's 846].

But "he" in "he was a murderer from the beginning" is translated from the Greek word "ekeinos" [Strong's 1565].

"Autos" is used in most references to inanimate objects like lie, temple (John 2:20), hard sayings (John 6:60), body (John 19:40), net (John 21:6), etc. But when referring to people, Jesus, or God: God (John 8:42), murderer and liar (John 8:44), Lord (John 9:37), the Greek word "ekeinos" is used.

In this very paragraph, "it" [read: autos] refers to "lie" and "he" [read: ekeinos] refers to people. Sin is an inanimate object, not a person. Even though "father" is a person, the "spiritual father of sin" would also have been an inanimate object rather than a person. If "father" or "children" were really intended to mean "the father of sin", then the correct word to use would have been the one that refers to an inanimate object: "autos".

The fact that "ekeinos" was used is proof enough that "father" refers to a person and not to inanimate objects like sin or father of sin.

So if this is a literal reference to the genealogy of these jews, then we have proof that Jesus Christ made it clear to everyone in Judaea at the time that these jews were LIARS when they claimed to be descendants of Abraham. Nothing has changed: they're making the same false claims today.

Darby

(Joh 8:31) Jesus therefore said to the Jews who believed him, If ye abide in my word, ye are truly my disciples;

(Joh 8:32) and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

(Joh 8:33) They answered him, We are Abraham's seed, and have never been under bondage to any one; how sayest thou, Ye shall become free?

(Joh 8:34) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Every one that practises sin is the bondman of sin.

(Joh 8:35) Now the bondman abides not in the house for ever: the son abides for ever.

(Joh 8:36) If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free.

(Joh 8:37) I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word has no entrance in you.

(Joh 8:38) I speak what I have seen with my Father, and ye then do what ye have seen with your father.

(Joh 8:39) They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus says to them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham;

(Joh 8:40) but now ye seek to kill me, a man who has spoken the truth to you, which I have heard from God: this did not Abraham.

(Joh 8:41) Ye do the works of your father. They said therefore to him, We are not born of fornication; we have one father, God.

(Joh 8:42) Jesus said to them, If God were your father ye would have loved me, for I came forth from God and am come from him ; for neither am I come of myself, but *he* has sent me.

(Joh 8:43) Why do ye not know my speech? Because ye cannot hear my word.

(Joh 8:44) Ye are of the devil, as your father, and ye desire to do the lusts of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks falsehood, he speaks of what is his own; for he is a liar and its father:

(Joh 8:45) and because I speak the truth, ye do not believe me.

LITV

(Joh 8:31) Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in Him, If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples.

(Joh 8:32) And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

(Joh 8:33) They answered Him, We are Abraham's seed, and we have been in slavery to no one, never! How do You say, You will become free?

(Joh 8:34) Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Everyone practicing sin is a slave of sin.

(Joh 8:35) But the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains to the age.

(Joh 8:36) Therefore, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.

(Joh 8:37) I know that you are Abraham's seed, but you seek to kill Me, because My Word is not given room in you.

(Joh 8:38) I speak what I have seen with My Father. And you therefore do what you have seen with your father.

(Joh 8:39) They answered and said to Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, If you were children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham.

(Joh 8:40) But now you seek to kill Me, a man who has spoken the truth to you, which I heard alongside of God. Abraham did not do this.

(Joh 8:41) You do the works of your father. They said to Him, We were not born of fornication; we have one father, God.

(Joh 8:42) Then Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I went forth and have come from God. For I have not come from Myself, but that One sent Me.

(Joh 8:43) Why do you not know My speech? It is because you are not able to hear My Word.

(Joh 8:44) You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it.

(Joh 8:45) And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

Young's Literal Translation

(Joh 8:31) Jesus, therefore, said unto the Jews who believed in him, `If ye may remain in my word, truly my disciples ye are, and ye shall know the truth,

(Joh 8:32) and the truth shall make you free.'

(Joh 8:33) They answered him, `Seed of Abraham we are; and to no one have we been servants at any time; how dost thou say--Ye shall become free?'

(Joh 8:34) Jesus answered them, `Verily, verily, I say to you--Every one who is committing sin, is a servant of the sin,

(Joh 8:35) and the servant doth not remain in the house--to the age, the son doth remain--to the age;

(Joh 8:36) if then the son may make you free, in reality ye shall be free.

(Joh 8:37) `I have known that ye are seed of Abraham, but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you;

(Joh 8:38) I--that which I have seen with my Father do speak, and ye, therefore, that which ye have seen with your father--ye do.'

(Joh 8:39) They answered and said to him, `Our father is Abraham;' Jesus saith to them, `If children of Abraham ye were, the works of Abraham ye were doing;

(Joh 8:40) and now, ye seek to kill me--a man who hath spoken to you the truth I heard from God; this Abraham did not;

(Joh 8:41) ye do the works of your father.' They said, therefore, to him, `We of whoredom have not been born; one Father we have--God;'

(Joh 8:42) Jesus then said to them, `If God were your father, ye were loving me, for I came forth from God, and am come; for neither have I come of myself, but He sent me;

(Joh 8:43) wherefore do ye not know my speech? because ye are not able to hear my word.

(Joh 8:44) `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

(Joh 8:45) `And because I say the truth, ye do not believe me.

Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Joh 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Joh 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honor my Father, and ye do dishonor me.

Joh 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

G4690 sperma sper'-mah From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.

G5043 teknon tek'-non From the base of G5098; a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son.

Devil:diabolos, dee-ab'-ol-os; from Greek 1225 (diaballo); a traducer; specially Satan [compare Hebrew 7854 (satan)] :- false accuser, devil, slanderer.

He is speaking of Satan

rmays7: John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

rmays7: Father:pater, pat-ayr'; apparently a primary word; a "father" (literal or figurative, near or more remote) :- father, parent

rmays7: Malachi 2:10 (KJV) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

"Abraham" appears 250 times in 230 verses.

"Abraham" and "seed" appear 28 times.

"Abraham" and "children" appear 18 times

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Modified Tuesday, November 02, 2010